Were you a Troma fan before they began to distribute your film?
Yes...what I’m going to do is answer in quick bursts, then I’ll give you a detailed
answer. So...the answer is, yes, I was a Troma fan. I’d seen The Toxic Avenger in the tenth grade, which my older more conservative brother had recommended. Which was odd, because he didn’t normally go for that kind of thing. But it's easy to understand why that film was so successful, it had so much cross-over appeal. It was bloody and violent and well, what high school male doesn't enjoy blood and violence? But it was also really funny, sardonic... like Revenge of the Nerds...with a broomstick… a broomstick that penetrates flesh. Now that's a concept. But it also had a lot of energy... never boring. So, Lloyd and Herz made a cult classic in every sense of the word.
When you made Drawing Blood, were you hoping for Troma to eventually distribute it? I was editing Drawing Blood at a TV station and my manager gave me the keys to the AVID room and said, "Whatever, kid...do what you gotta do." So, every night after work, I edited the film between the hours of 9 - 4am and in the middle of the editing. I picked up Lloyd's book. Hold on.... I can't remember the title. All I Need To Know About Filmmaking I Learned From The Toxic Avenger. Yes, that one. I read that and it was brutally funny, but it also showed Lloyd to be quite intelligent, a side of him that you normally don't associate with Troma films because they normally get a bad rap from the cultural elite who just shrug his films off as low-brow crap. Well, that book was a lot of fun...but insightful and most importantly, inspirational. So I called Troma one day and talked to the acquisitioner there...Kristina Hibbs, I think that was her name and she was extremely cool. I described the film to her and she was very encouraging. She said, "Send it in...we'd love to watch it," and this was nice to hear because most studios that you send your film to aren't so nice. Most won't take unsolicited material and that's what great about Troma...they are very approachable if you're a fledgling filmmaker. So...the answer is...I didn't think of Troma until I read the book and once i read it...I had a new respect for Lloyd and Michael and I realized that they dealt with waaaay more films than just the films they had produced like Sergeant Kabukiman, The Toxic Avenger, Troma's War. I realized they were also a distributor of independent films. There's a company called Full Moon Films. They did the Puppet Master films, I believe and they only distribute what they produce, I think. My friend loves the Full Moon stuff... I'm not a fan. I hate Full Moon. No, I don't hate them, but since this is a Troma interview
and Full Moon is their competition... I've seen one good Full Moon movie (The Dead Hate The Living!) I'll gladly say that Full Moon sucks. Yes, and in this case, the living hate full moon.
Why did you choose to use the pseudonym Sergio Lapel for Drawing Blood? Good question and a fun one to answer. If I'm long-winded here, cut me off, okay?
Drawing Blood is, for the most part, a bloody campy horror film, no question there.
I'm not ashamed of it, I love bloody camp. But, I only made it bloody and campy
because I knew that there was a market for it. I had made a feature film a year earlier
called HOUSE OF PANCAKES, a black and white 16mm feature along the lines of Kevin Smith's CLERKS or Richard Linklater's SLACKER. House of Pancakes, was pretty good for a first feature, especially one that cost $9,000, but it had really bad production value: bad sound, bad acting, but it still found a small distributor in New Jersey called EI Independent Cinema. They mostly focus on vampire erotic stuff now.
And Rock N Roll Frankenstein.;-)
Is that right?
Yeah.
They make Full Moon look like Dreamworks, which I guess, isn't necessarily a complement to either company. I'm kidding...it's easy to be ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT when you're talking about Troma, because that's what it's all about. Being a rebel, bucking the system, making the edgy kind of films that the studios are too afraid or are too puritanical to deal with. So... where was I?
House of Pancakes
Okay, anyway...the guys at EI told me that if I wanted to make my investors some money...to make something with a little flesh and blood. So...I whipped out two scripts dealing with the concept of a female vampire who paints nude models in blood, kind of a rip-off of Roger Corman’s Bucket of Blood, about the sculptor who sculpts from dead bodies. I never saw it, but i read about it in his book....HOW I MADE A HUNDRED MOVIES IN HOLLYWOOD AND NEVER LOST A DIME, another must-read for the rebel, fledgling filmmaker. Anyway, two scripts for Drawing Blood: one was more wacky...kind of like Dumb and Dumber meets Dracula and the other one was more serious and mysterious, like a low-rent David Lynch film. I'm in no way comparing my filmmaking to David Lynch. The man is amazing. So is Lloyd Kaufman. I'm just saying that I had two scripts: one was weird and one was wacky. I merged the two because I couldn't decide which way to go. Now, you make be asking yourself, “What the fuck does this have to do with the question I asked?” But, though I digress a lot, it's all connected, I promise
I raised the money for the film very quickly. I had sent a couple of lawyers an eight-page fax proposal for DRAWING BLOOD and to my surprise, they cut me a check for the film the next day. I was flabbergasted. I'd always read and heard that fund-raising was such a bitch and this was a piece of cake… a crumb of cake, in fact. But I’d also heard about money falling through on productions. So, I knew that we had to spend that money quickly before the investors changed their minds and demanded their money back. So, in lieu of rewriting the script, which I should have done, I just combined them, because I didn't think each of the two scripts was that strong on its own. So, I wasn't really happy with the script, so I used a pen-name for the writer: Noel Anderson. I consider myself a decent writer but no one can hastily write a great script. Well, some people… maybe Philip K. Dick, Kurt Vonegat, but yeah, you hear about writer's bragging about churning out a script in six days...one week....two weeks. That's nothing to brag about. So you have a lot of filmmakers making "well-made" movies that are just exercises in technique, but are empty narratively because they're not well-written. So...I'm not apologizing for Drawing Blood. I just knew the script wasn't the best that I could do. But, Justin, I just wanted to get my second film made. I wanted to make my investors a little money so that I could go ahead and get my career started. Also, I wasn't the greatest filmmaker, in terms of craft, and I knew that if I could get Drawing Blood made...it would be better than House of Pancakes. I'd be growing and making progress. You have to be able to learn from yourself and others.
That's another reason why our president is such a horrible leader: because he's not a leader. He even admits...that it would be easier to be a dictator and that once he's made up his mind on something...nobody is going to be able to change it, even if they know more than him.
So...I'm not just being political, it all works the same with film. You have to be willing to listen to the ideas of those around you. Directors and writers have a tendency to be very defensive about their work and that's understandable making a film is personal. As far as putting "personal" work into it, there's nothing inherently personal about the script of Drawing Blood, but the commitment it takes to make a film is huge so you feel very close to it regardless of what it's about. But, anyway, my point is this: I knew the script was the greatest, I did know that. But I just wanted to get it made. I knew that Drawing Blood had more potential. We could have spent more time preparing the film, prepping the film in preproduction, scouting locations, rehearsing with the actors, but I was under tremendous pressure to get the film made.
You didn't know this, or maybe you did, it might be on the commentary, but 24 hours before shooting began on Drawing Blood, the crew went awol. The director of photographer, the producer, the whole crew said, "Fuck this....it's going to be a disaster...we're not ready for this" because little preparation had been made. I said, "Fuck all of you...me and my boy Bryan Kupko(who was the camera operator on the film, and who is one of the most passionate people regarding film that i've ever met) will make the film with a two-person crew. I'll run the sound...Bryan can run the camera." It was a ridiculous notion, but I was going to get that fucking film made one way or another. But, it all worked out. The crew came back on because Wilmington, North Carolina back then was a hell of a place to be. Filmmakers were hungry and they were ready to make anything at any cost. We were all channeling Lloyd Kaufman, Roger Corman, and Sam Fuller, who I know is a big influence of Lloyd.
I used Sergio Lapel for two reasons: I knew that this wasn't the best film I could do at the time, so I was a little...not embarrassed to put my name on it. But, I just didn't feel quite right about it. I didn't feel like I directed even though I did direct it. But, I didn't think it was as good as an Onur Tukel film should be. I'm not being arrogant, just let me explain a couple of other things too. I would never, never, never in a million years every call a film ONUR TUKEL'S RE-MEMBERING JACK or ONUR TUKEL'S DRAWING BLOOD. Now that's arrogant. One person doesn't make a film, a crew does. A group of actors, investors, every one is important. So for one person to take ownership...or in this case “onurship” of a film. See, bad pun. Lloyd would be so proud, although his puns are much better. But, one person doesn't make a film. Yet. Unless you count Robert Rodriguez, god bless the man.
So...I thought I could get away with calling the film SERGIO LAPEL'S DRAWING BLOOD because it sounds better than just DRAWING BLOOD, also...because some of the film is sort of artsy. Kind of like the Italian horror films of Dario Argento.... but not as god. Again, i'm not comparing. But, I thought that calling the film SERGIO LAPEL'S DRAWING BLOOD might fool people who might look at the video box and question whether or not they'd heard of the director.
"Hmmmm," someone might think. "Sergio Lapel. I know I've heard that name before...he's famous right? In another country" so this must be good." So...at first, it was a way of saying..."Okay, Onur...you know this isn't the best you can do...the script needs a rewrite...you need to plan a little more." But, it was also a way of giving the film more foreign appeal. Also, I could use the possessive credit on a film and not feel guilty because there is no Sergio Lapel.
But now that the film's received several good reviews, do you think you should've left your name on it? No, I love that it's a Sergio Lapel film. I think that gives it part of its charm. And Justin, Sergio is alive and well. If I got a chance to do some really lame 2 million dollar martial arts films starring some low-rent actor and the script sucked, yet some small studio wanted me to direct it, and I didn't have final cut, and I had to shoot it just like their script says, you better believe I'd use Sergio Lapel again. That's not my way of saying I'm using Sergio Lapel as a scapegoat for my films that suck, because I don't think SLDB sucks. You gotta understand we made that film for $15,000 on 16mm. That’s an incredible feat. But for every good review it’s received, there’s a review that rips it to shreds because the reviewer doesn't understand how limited you are when you're making a film for that kind of money. But, if I had to make another shlocky horror film that wasn't completely under my conditions, Sergio Lapel would take the credit...or the blame.
I had some fun with the promotion materials of Re-Membering Jack. On the back of the VHS cover sleeve, I had a quote that says, "I envy this film," by Sergio Lapel...director of Drawing Blood. Which is true, because the filmmaker I was then envies the filmmaker I am now. That sounds like something out of SPINAL TAP, but it’s true.
Are there any other facts about Drawing Blood you'd like to mention? Well, I'm extremely grateful to Troma. They've been really great to us (the filmmakers)
by giving our smaller films an opportunity to be seen when no other distributor would have us. That sounds like a back-handed complement because it's like, "Okay, so, we've got to bigger, more reputable companies...and if they wanted us...we wouldn't even consider Troma", but it's not like that completely. But, of course, you get to a point, where you want to make bigger films and more ambitious films and Troma isn't the kind of company that can pay independent filmmakers a lot of money once that bigger film is made but like Roger Corman, who gave Martin Scorcese his first directing assignment
and who gave Jack Nicholson his first acting gig. Troma has discovered a lot of important directors. I hope I'm part of that group one day.
Okay, tell us a little bit about your latest film, Re-Membering Jack. People can watch the trailer at http://www.rememberingjack.com. It's a wonderfully twisted film about a birdhouse builder who doesn't have a penis. Yes....we can keep going if you'd like.
Go ahead.
SLDB was a big reason why i was able to raise the money for that film. It’s much bigger and more ambitious than SLDB. It was shot on shot on 35mm and it's beautiful... looks like a million dollar film. Which was important for us to make it look beautiful.
What was the budget?
I can't tell you that...because we're still getting offers. You understand. I tell people
it cost less than Titanic and more than Clerks. But, it was important to make it look as professional as possible because a lot of people shun the film before they see it. They assume that because of the subject matter, it shouldn't be taken seriously so we knew we had to make a beautiful film so that people would take it seriously. It is beautiful in terms of photography, but also story and performances. Don't get me wrong, this is an edgy, twisted, fucked-up movie, but it's also got a heart, which is important.
Did some of the cast and crew of Drawing Blood return for Re-Membering Jack?
Yes, the same producer, Les Franck, director of photographer, Shawn Lewallen,camera assistants...Bryan Kupko, Luke Kalarickel. Kirk Wilson from SLDB and the old man, Larry Pallatta has a brief, hysterical part in RJ as a lawyer. He's great, and unfortunately, dead now. God bless the man.
That's sad... he was great in DB
He had more energy and life at 80 that most people I know at 30. He was great. So,a lot of the same people worked on Re-Membering Jack. Wilmington, NC is great because the film industry is there Dawson's Creek shot there for six years and since the 80's...film has consistently been produced there. Did you know THE CROW was shot there? Brandon Lee died there. There's a lot of film activity there and the equipment (camera and light) houses will rent to indie filmmakers for cheap
What are some of your favorite movies? Troma and Non-Troma.
Favorite films: a French movie, PONETTE, about a little girl coping with the death of her motherJAWS, HALLOWEEN, GLENGLARY GLEN ROSS, TOUCH OF EVIL Orson Well's...you can't touch the man. Hmmmm... this question always puts me on the spot. And this isn't a joke, but Babe... about the talking pig. It's really one of the most beautiful films ever made. I got into a huge argument with a guy on Oscar night because I was so pissed that Braveheart beat it for best picture.
Favorite Troma movie: TERROR FIRMER is out of control. That movie is absolutely insane. I love it. COMBAT SHOCK is amazing. Troma's terrific. Sure....they've got some shitty films, but they've got some great films and mostly, their films aren't forgettable like everything else that the mainstream releases. But sometimes...you have to watch a movie three or four times before you can truly appreciate it.
Most of the people out there that hate Troma usually just don't get it.
Yes, you're right. People turn off the movie after five or six minutes because they're offended, but they miss the point. They're not really watching it. But there's something to be said about a company that has been around as long as TROMA has by making the type of films that they do. I wish i could be the one who says it, but the fans and the films, they speak for Troma. An alternate to the mundane, to the safe, to the conformist, herd mentality. The ability to defy the establishment.
Favorite Music?
All kinds. I know that's a broad answer, but lately it's been Public Enemy and Scarlatti, who was a beautiful 16th century composer. Or maybe 17th century, but some of the most amazing piano music you've ever heard. My favorite are his scores that are punctuated by short, violent staccato beats. i've been into the normal trendy stuff lately. Granddaddy, the new Flaming Lips, and a lot of that techno, electronic rock stuff is great. But old school rock...you really can't touch that stuff...Old School Bruce Springstreen...anything before Born in the USA. I'm not talking about The Rising, or Human Touch or LUcky Town...those albums depressed me. Not because they were sad...but because they sucked. I'm talking about his first three albums...Greetings From Asbury Park, The Wild, the Innocent and the E-Street Shuffle and Born to Run. Those three albums are unassailable...and Public Enemy's first three...that's all you need in life.
Anything else you'd like to mention?
Yes, one final thought. Between editing Re-Membering Jack and now, 9/11 happened and before that, I didn't give a damn about politics. I had never voted, I never really read political literature and I didn't pay attention to critical issues, especially regarding foreign policy. But the bottom line is now, it would be foolish to ignore these issues because if we're going to claim to live in a democracy we have to take responsibility for what our leaders do, because after all, we elected them. Artists have a big responsibility here too, especially filmmakers. People love movies and if you can get someone to pay attention and watch your film for, one hour, two hours. whatever... then you've got a chance to reach someone. With that said I feel like I can no longer make films that are so frivolous. Vampires, guys without penises... it's all fun and I love it. But now, I've changed. It all doesn't mean as much to me as it once did. Filmmaking… art... because it all seems so pointless when you think about the state of things... the way the world is right now. So yes, I'll still make monster movies and crazy comedies, but not without subversion. Not without some kind of social vitality attached to it. I’m not trying to sound pretentious. I don't consider myself an intellectual, but shit...I think we should all strive to be. It's pathetic that George Bush was able to connect with the so-called "EVERYMAN" during the 2000 election because he was an intellectual slouch. Well, fuck the everyman. The president of the United States (or any country for that matter) should be a fucking genius!!!
Most artists are pretty insecure. They make they're art to feel better about themselves. Not most, but some. For me, without art my life is meaningless. But in order for my art to be as important as it was before 9/11, I feel like there has to be something more to it. With that said...I’ve been reading and thinking about the issues, questioning the system that we're in, and writing according to what my subconscious is telling me and it's saying, "Hey, these are fucked up times and I’m a little fucked up as a result. But, still... there's hope." So I think that's the direction I’m going with my new film, INFECTED, and if I can get that made, I think I may be able to quite my day job. We'll see. Ultimately, it all comes down to selfishness and making the kind of film that I believe in. But, 9/11 has forced me to break out and think about the larger picture too, which is impossible to assess. There are no answers and truth. What is truth anymore? Certainly not what the media is telling us. The truth lies in what they're not telling us. And the responsibility of the artists is to find this truth and put it in their work. But...within all of this madness, we have to have a little bit of faith. Not in God or our leaders, but ourselves and humanity in large because that's all we know.